Meet our Contributor:
| Julie Hoffman, Ed.D. (@HoffieCup) is a Literacy and Social Studies Teacher Instructional Leader (TIL) with Springfield Public Schools. She is also an adjunct professor in the Teacher Education Program and the Department of English and Modern Languages at University of Illinois Springfield. She earned her Doctor of Education in literacy from Judson University in 2018. She is currently President of the Illinois Reading Council (IRC). Her research interests include urban education, social and emotional learning, young adult literature, poetry, and empathy. She believes that children’s literature and poetry can be a message of perseverance and hope and believes that we thrive when we invest in ourselves and others. |  |
Meet Rex Ogle:
 | REX OGLE is an award-winning author of more than a hundred books, comics, graphic novels, and memoirs—most notably Free Lunch (winner of the ALA/YALSA award for Excellence in Non-Fiction), Abuela Don’t Forget Me (ALA/YALSA award for Excellence in Non-Fiction finalist), Road Home (a Micheal Printz Honor and Stonewall Honor book), and middle grade graphic novels Four Eyes and Pizza Face. Under his pseudonym REY TERCIERO, he also re-imagines classics as modern and diverse graphic novels, including Meg, Jo, Beth, & Amy, Northranger (nominated for both Harvey and GLAAD Media Awards), and Dan in Green Gables (nominated for a GLAAD Media Award). Born and raised in Texas, Rex now lives in Los Angeles where he writes every day—when he’s not reading X-Men, gaming with friends, or chasing his dog, Toby, trying to score a hug. |
Trojan Horses and Real Talk with Rex Ogle
An interview by Julie Hoffman with Rex Ogle
Julie: Hi, Rex, Thanks for spending some time with me.
Rex: Hi, it’s good to see you.
Julie: Okay, Let’s dive in. So many books, so little time. I want to focus on your YA, mostly, but I know you have a new book that just came out. Absent. Let’s start with that.
Rex: Well basically, doing all of these school visits— talking to students and teachers and librarians— I was asking, “What are some of the biggest problems kids are facing today?” And it seemed like the two biggest ones right now are not going to school and social media. And I was like, ‘Well, social media is big to tackle. But, I know about not going to school. For me, when I was a kid I was not always able to make it to school because my parents were out looking for jobs. It was my job to take care of my brother who was 10 years younger than me. And of course I'd go to school and my teachers would be like, “You’ve missed two or three days,” and I would be like, “Yeah, and I did all my homework. I can ace the exam.” But they would just frown at me, like, they were really judgy about it. I was so young, and I didn’t have the voice to explain, “Hey, I’m not making it to school for reasons that are out of my hands.”
So I started thinking about that, and came up with the idea for Absent. Three different boys living under the poverty line who cannot make it to school for three different reasons. One because he's being bullied within an inch of his life. One because he has two brothers he has to take care of and he can't make it to school on time. And the third one because his dad's in jail and his favorite teacher quits, so he feels like no one loves him. Because I know some kids aren’t “readers” yet, I wanted to play with the format. Since I already write novels and novels-in-verse and graphic novels, I was like, “Let's put all three in one book.” Three protagonists—three formats. One kid wants to be an artist, so his story is in comic books. One kid wants to be a songwriter, so his story is in rap lyrics. And the third kid wants to be a doctor, so he keeps a journal.
I'm very very excited. I mean, I love all of my books, but this one is just like my little baby.
Rex: Hi, it’s good to see you.
Julie: Okay, Let’s dive in. So many books, so little time. I want to focus on your YA, mostly, but I know you have a new book that just came out. Absent. Let’s start with that.
Rex: Well basically, doing all of these school visits— talking to students and teachers and librarians— I was asking, “What are some of the biggest problems kids are facing today?” And it seemed like the two biggest ones right now are not going to school and social media. And I was like, ‘Well, social media is big to tackle. But, I know about not going to school. For me, when I was a kid I was not always able to make it to school because my parents were out looking for jobs. It was my job to take care of my brother who was 10 years younger than me. And of course I'd go to school and my teachers would be like, “You’ve missed two or three days,” and I would be like, “Yeah, and I did all my homework. I can ace the exam.” But they would just frown at me, like, they were really judgy about it. I was so young, and I didn’t have the voice to explain, “Hey, I’m not making it to school for reasons that are out of my hands.”
So I started thinking about that, and came up with the idea for Absent. Three different boys living under the poverty line who cannot make it to school for three different reasons. One because he's being bullied within an inch of his life. One because he has two brothers he has to take care of and he can't make it to school on time. And the third one because his dad's in jail and his favorite teacher quits, so he feels like no one loves him. Because I know some kids aren’t “readers” yet, I wanted to play with the format. Since I already write novels and novels-in-verse and graphic novels, I was like, “Let's put all three in one book.” Three protagonists—three formats. One kid wants to be an artist, so his story is in comic books. One kid wants to be a songwriter, so his story is in rap lyrics. And the third kid wants to be a doctor, so he keeps a journal.
I'm very very excited. I mean, I love all of my books, but this one is just like my little baby.
Julie: I love it! So with the graphic novel part, did you write the text and someone else illustrated it?
Rex: Yes, I cannot draw to save my life. I always work with other artists, and it's good. For the comic book artist it is a Black student, and I was like, “I don't feel comfortable directing exactly how the images will be. I want to find an artist who can convey the relationship between the boy and his father, because I thought that was important. And then, I’m half white and half Mexican, so the other two kids are Mexican and white.
Julie: Yes, yes. What’s funny is that In this conversation I definitely planned to talk through Memoir, and I was also wanting to talk about, like, exploring different formats. So now, well, you just covered all of it! Let’s keep going with Memoir, because I feel like that was kind of the beginning for you. You and I have talked about, well, at least two of your memoirs, so far. I told you how I couldn’t even make it through the foreword of Don't Forget Me, Abuela. We also talked about Road Home, and some of our kindred-spirit stuff. Let’s go back to the beginning and talk about “the Memoir that you didn't want to write” and how that kind of became a place to write your story and it became a place of healing.
Rex: Yes, I cannot draw to save my life. I always work with other artists, and it's good. For the comic book artist it is a Black student, and I was like, “I don't feel comfortable directing exactly how the images will be. I want to find an artist who can convey the relationship between the boy and his father, because I thought that was important. And then, I’m half white and half Mexican, so the other two kids are Mexican and white.
Julie: Yes, yes. What’s funny is that In this conversation I definitely planned to talk through Memoir, and I was also wanting to talk about, like, exploring different formats. So now, well, you just covered all of it! Let’s keep going with Memoir, because I feel like that was kind of the beginning for you. You and I have talked about, well, at least two of your memoirs, so far. I told you how I couldn’t even make it through the foreword of Don't Forget Me, Abuela. We also talked about Road Home, and some of our kindred-spirit stuff. Let’s go back to the beginning and talk about “the Memoir that you didn't want to write” and how that kind of became a place to write your story and it became a place of healing.
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Rex: So, as you know, at one point I was like well, I never wanted to write this stuff. I always wanted to be a writer, but I wanted to write fantasy or sci-fi or comic books. I love superheroes! That's the stuff I grew up reading, because with what I was dealing with at home, poverty-domestic-violence-home-instability-food-insecurity-etcectra-etcetera, I needed those books to escape from the real world. So growing up, I wanted to create books for others to read and escape from reality. Reality is a lot sometimes. It can be exhausting. It can be traumatic. It can be heavy. I wanted to give people an escape the way I had an escape.
Coming from where I came from, I didn't think I could do it on my own. I was rejected by all the MFA creative writing programs I applied to, which led me to move to New York City with a thousand bucks and a double bag, and I was like, “I'm going to work in book publishing. I'm going to learn everything about how to be a good writer because, obviously, I don't know.”
So, while I was in New York, I wrote 18 novels and 21 comic book series. Every single one? Rejected. It sucked. But . .. I think it was the Universe pushing me to write something that was not sci-fi, that was not horror, that was not Escapist. It wanted me to write something real, and that's why I wrote Free Lunch. And then you know, my publisher was like, “Do you have any other stories?” [Laughs] Yeah. Yeah, I have other stories! After Free Lunch, I promised myself that was it. But . . . then I wrote Punching Bag. And then I was like, that is it. But then I wrote Abuela, Don’t Forget Me when my abuela got dementia. And then he finally talked me into writing Road Home, and I was like, “That’s it! I’m done! No more memoirs!” And then I signed up with Scholastic to do a trilogy of memoirs for middle school. [Laughs again]
Coming from where I came from, I didn't think I could do it on my own. I was rejected by all the MFA creative writing programs I applied to, which led me to move to New York City with a thousand bucks and a double bag, and I was like, “I'm going to work in book publishing. I'm going to learn everything about how to be a good writer because, obviously, I don't know.”
So, while I was in New York, I wrote 18 novels and 21 comic book series. Every single one? Rejected. It sucked. But . .. I think it was the Universe pushing me to write something that was not sci-fi, that was not horror, that was not Escapist. It wanted me to write something real, and that's why I wrote Free Lunch. And then you know, my publisher was like, “Do you have any other stories?” [Laughs] Yeah. Yeah, I have other stories! After Free Lunch, I promised myself that was it. But . . . then I wrote Punching Bag. And then I was like, that is it. But then I wrote Abuela, Don’t Forget Me when my abuela got dementia. And then he finally talked me into writing Road Home, and I was like, “That’s it! I’m done! No more memoirs!” And then I signed up with Scholastic to do a trilogy of memoirs for middle school. [Laughs again]
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What Followed
Rex: Four Eyes, Pizza Face, and Fruit Cake (which just came out in April) is a graphic novel trilogy. It's 6th grade, 7th grade, 8th grade. Even though they take place at the same time as Free Lunch and Punching Bag, that is not the thesis. I wanted to give kids who are not ready for Free Lunch or Punching Bag a different story. It’s still me. You'll see the same characters. And you’ll see the poverty. Poverty is important for kids to see. In the first book, like, getting glasses? That was a huge deal for me because my family didn't have money for glasses. We basically had to beg my dad, who had left when I was five. That's not a good feeling—to feel like you have to beg for stuff when you’re a kid.
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Rex: Then with Pizza Face, all my friends were on Clearasil and acne medication. I didn't have that option. So again, what I like is that I am writing memoirs that address one thing but they're talking about something else that I think is even more relatable. So many people in our country are living below the poverty line.
Julie: Yes, yes. I love that. I feel like even in your memoirs, I know that at first you were like, “I don't want to dip into the painful stuff. I don’t want to go there, or write something real.” But I also think, and I say this when I talk about authors who write for kids and write for teenagers, the books have that resilience and hope. The person who writes the memoir has the survivor story and gets to tell the story. Like, you made it. You're still here with us, and I'm so glad. I think that for your audience you always seem to make sure that you include that resilience and hope. So, in your story of. . . well, some really tough things that you've been through, how do you make sure that you include that?
Rex: I mean it's hard because I feel like with Punching Bag, like that was my Empire Strikes Back. Like, in the trilogy of Free Lunch, Punching Bag, Road Home, that was kind of a sad ending. I wanted there to be hope, but I wanted to be honest with my readers. Like, this is hard when there is violence in the home. It is hard, and it does not go away. There's not a happy ending at the end. But I can write an afterword. So, if the narrative itself is heavy, and doesn't necessarily have a happy ending, I still put the afterword. I survived this, you know. We can all survive whatever the world throws—I mean, see, even that? I want to self-correct, because some people don't survive everything the world throws at them. This world is hard. But I do hope that, you know, with all my books, that there is kind of a through line for readers. There are ways that you can help yourself. There are ways you can lean on resources that are out there. You know, if you have one family member that can help, lean on them. If you have one friend that can help, lean on them. We're all in this together. It's hard. Ugh. Sorry. I know I keep saying that life is hard.
Julie: Yes, yes. I love that. I feel like even in your memoirs, I know that at first you were like, “I don't want to dip into the painful stuff. I don’t want to go there, or write something real.” But I also think, and I say this when I talk about authors who write for kids and write for teenagers, the books have that resilience and hope. The person who writes the memoir has the survivor story and gets to tell the story. Like, you made it. You're still here with us, and I'm so glad. I think that for your audience you always seem to make sure that you include that resilience and hope. So, in your story of. . . well, some really tough things that you've been through, how do you make sure that you include that?
Rex: I mean it's hard because I feel like with Punching Bag, like that was my Empire Strikes Back. Like, in the trilogy of Free Lunch, Punching Bag, Road Home, that was kind of a sad ending. I wanted there to be hope, but I wanted to be honest with my readers. Like, this is hard when there is violence in the home. It is hard, and it does not go away. There's not a happy ending at the end. But I can write an afterword. So, if the narrative itself is heavy, and doesn't necessarily have a happy ending, I still put the afterword. I survived this, you know. We can all survive whatever the world throws—I mean, see, even that? I want to self-correct, because some people don't survive everything the world throws at them. This world is hard. But I do hope that, you know, with all my books, that there is kind of a through line for readers. There are ways that you can help yourself. There are ways you can lean on resources that are out there. You know, if you have one family member that can help, lean on them. If you have one friend that can help, lean on them. We're all in this together. It's hard. Ugh. Sorry. I know I keep saying that life is hard.
Julie: It is, though. It is. I was thinking about when you said, “I want to self-correct” and how some of us don't survive. I was like, well, in fact, none of us do. Like, not one of us. 200 years from now, you are not going to be here. And, I'm not going to be here. None of us. But how do we make it more tolerable, and sometimes even joyful? When we're here, and it's all of those things you listed—leaning on each other. That's where the resilience and hope is. It is in each other.
Rex: Yeah, yeah.
Rex: Yeah, yeah.
Pen Name and Other Projects
Julie: Yeah. Okay, now let's talk about your pen name and some of your other books.
Rex: Rey Terciero. Fun fact. . . a lot of my pen names, I have like eight. [both of us laugh] Really, I only count Rex Ogle and Rey Terciero. All the other ones I was doing for work for hire back when I needed extra paychecks. Working in publishing, I made like zero dollars. I mean, making $35,000 in New York City is not a lot of money. So I did all this writing under pseudonyms.I was not supposed to be writing for other publishing houses, because it was considered a conflict of interest. And I'm like, “I gotta pay the bills.” So, I kept making up pen names and Rey Terciero is one of the ones that stuck. I got this idea to start doing classic reimaginings as graphic novels. The first one was Little Women—Meg, Jo, Beth, and Amy. My co-creator, Bre Indigo is Black and they wanted a Black family. I was like, “Well, I can't write all of that, but how about we create this story together?” So, it's a mixed family, and of course there's a queer character. It’s like a modern day Little Women. This is more realistic to what people are going through. It’s part of what I am doing with Dan in Green Gables, which is Anne of Green Gables, but with the queer character. Northranger which is Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey, or coming out next year, Count of Monte Cristo High. I want to reimagine these stories where kids are at. Twenty years of rejection pushed me. It was “Stop writing what you think will make you a New York Times bestseller, and start writing the books that you wanted to read as a kid.” As a kid I wanted to read comic books. I wanted to read graphic novels. Apparently that aligns with what kids want to read today. Maybe if they like Dan in Green Gables, they'll be like, “What's Anne of Green Gables?” In the back of every single one, I make sure that there is room for back matter, meaning an author letter about why I wrote it, then a page about the author, and a page about the original work.
To me that's very important. I want kids to be able to explore, to be like, “Ohh, this has an origin that I had no idea about!”
Rex: Rey Terciero. Fun fact. . . a lot of my pen names, I have like eight. [both of us laugh] Really, I only count Rex Ogle and Rey Terciero. All the other ones I was doing for work for hire back when I needed extra paychecks. Working in publishing, I made like zero dollars. I mean, making $35,000 in New York City is not a lot of money. So I did all this writing under pseudonyms.I was not supposed to be writing for other publishing houses, because it was considered a conflict of interest. And I'm like, “I gotta pay the bills.” So, I kept making up pen names and Rey Terciero is one of the ones that stuck. I got this idea to start doing classic reimaginings as graphic novels. The first one was Little Women—Meg, Jo, Beth, and Amy. My co-creator, Bre Indigo is Black and they wanted a Black family. I was like, “Well, I can't write all of that, but how about we create this story together?” So, it's a mixed family, and of course there's a queer character. It’s like a modern day Little Women. This is more realistic to what people are going through. It’s part of what I am doing with Dan in Green Gables, which is Anne of Green Gables, but with the queer character. Northranger which is Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey, or coming out next year, Count of Monte Cristo High. I want to reimagine these stories where kids are at. Twenty years of rejection pushed me. It was “Stop writing what you think will make you a New York Times bestseller, and start writing the books that you wanted to read as a kid.” As a kid I wanted to read comic books. I wanted to read graphic novels. Apparently that aligns with what kids want to read today. Maybe if they like Dan in Green Gables, they'll be like, “What's Anne of Green Gables?” In the back of every single one, I make sure that there is room for back matter, meaning an author letter about why I wrote it, then a page about the author, and a page about the original work.
To me that's very important. I want kids to be able to explore, to be like, “Ohh, this has an origin that I had no idea about!”
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Julie: I love Dan. Do you have other classics that you're thinking about doing this with? I know you're super busy, and you're writing a ton, but like, do you have kind of a running list of eventual titles? And are we allowed to know?
Rex: I'm pulling up my spreadsheet now for you. I won't tell you everything. What I can tell you: The Odyssey: Long Way Home is an anthropomorphic version of the Greek Odyssey, but in the very first scene Odys, who is a little mouse. Odysseus—Odys—throws down a sword and he promises the gods he will never kill again. He will never do violence against another person again. They're like, “Ohh. Try to get home without using violence.” So, it's him fighting against his own need to hurt other people the entire way home. I actually wrote it in 2019, and the artist is still drawing it. It is beautiful—stunning. I don't know when it's coming out. It may be a minute. Let's see, what else am I working on? I'm working on a four part Jane Austen series that I cannot tell you about, even though I just said it. I have a list of some of my favorite books. I'll just tell you the original names: Romeo and Julie:t, Wuthering Heights, Scarlet Letter, Macbeth. I want to do something with all the monsters: Frankenstein, Dracula . . .
Julie: That would be a really cool series.
Rex: Yeah, I have another idea involving social media. What I love to do is like, Trojan horse some important messaging into books. I'm getting a tattoo of a Trojan horse soon, because I feel like that's what I've done my whole life. I present very white. I present straight. I present, I mean, maybe not wealthy but . . . I feel like my whole life I've been kind of Trojan horsing myself into helping myself. and now I'm trying to Trojan horse myself into helping others.
Rex: I'm pulling up my spreadsheet now for you. I won't tell you everything. What I can tell you: The Odyssey: Long Way Home is an anthropomorphic version of the Greek Odyssey, but in the very first scene Odys, who is a little mouse. Odysseus—Odys—throws down a sword and he promises the gods he will never kill again. He will never do violence against another person again. They're like, “Ohh. Try to get home without using violence.” So, it's him fighting against his own need to hurt other people the entire way home. I actually wrote it in 2019, and the artist is still drawing it. It is beautiful—stunning. I don't know when it's coming out. It may be a minute. Let's see, what else am I working on? I'm working on a four part Jane Austen series that I cannot tell you about, even though I just said it. I have a list of some of my favorite books. I'll just tell you the original names: Romeo and Julie:t, Wuthering Heights, Scarlet Letter, Macbeth. I want to do something with all the monsters: Frankenstein, Dracula . . .
Julie: That would be a really cool series.
Rex: Yeah, I have another idea involving social media. What I love to do is like, Trojan horse some important messaging into books. I'm getting a tattoo of a Trojan horse soon, because I feel like that's what I've done my whole life. I present very white. I present straight. I present, I mean, maybe not wealthy but . . . I feel like my whole life I've been kind of Trojan horsing myself into helping myself. and now I'm trying to Trojan horse myself into helping others.
Julie: That is totally the vibe that I got from you the very first moment that I met you in person.
Rex: That I’m a Trojan horse? [Both laugh]
Julie: No. That you present as someone who is constantly doing the work to be the best, toward-healing human being that you can. And you write so that kids can find healing in stuff too. So yeah, Trojan horse.
Rex: I mean, not to be too serious, but the way I look at it is if it weren't for my abuela, if it weren't for books and stories, if it weren't for educators and librarians and teachers who encouraged me—it certainly wasn't my parents—if it was not for those people, I'd be in prison. I'd be dead in a ditch. I wouldn't be here. So as far as I'm concerned, it is my job to pay it forward. I feel like my abuela, who passed a few years back, is always in my ear being like, “No, you're not going to do that to make money. You're going to write this book over here instead, to help kids.”
Rex: That I’m a Trojan horse? [Both laugh]
Julie: No. That you present as someone who is constantly doing the work to be the best, toward-healing human being that you can. And you write so that kids can find healing in stuff too. So yeah, Trojan horse.
Rex: I mean, not to be too serious, but the way I look at it is if it weren't for my abuela, if it weren't for books and stories, if it weren't for educators and librarians and teachers who encouraged me—it certainly wasn't my parents—if it was not for those people, I'd be in prison. I'd be dead in a ditch. I wouldn't be here. So as far as I'm concerned, it is my job to pay it forward. I feel like my abuela, who passed a few years back, is always in my ear being like, “No, you're not going to do that to make money. You're going to write this book over here instead, to help kids.”
When We Ride
Julie: OK, so earlier you were talking about writing in different formats, and I love that you went there with a YA novel. Tell us about that decision, that journey, that whole process.
Rex: So, when I wrote When We Ride, you know, I had sworn off memoirs. I went to my publisher and I was like, “My senior year is a really good story.” He was like, “I thought you said, ‘No more memoirs.’” So, we had a conversation about it. He liked the concept but the ending was all wrong. He's like, “Maybe you should go fiction,” and I was like, “I think you're right.” So, When We Ride is only 70% true. [Laughter] My senior year in high school I was living with my abuela. My best friend was a drug dealer. I used to drive him around to his drug deals because he did not have a car. I would sit in the car, doing my homework and filling out college applications, while he would go into college campuses and sell weed to college students. A lot of people were like, “Don't you know your best friend's a drug dealer?” I'm like, “Yeah.” They thought that made me a bad person by association. I was like, “Why is he a bad person?” They didn't know his life circumstances—why he was doing it. His mom has no job and we lived in Abilene, TX which is a small town, and a college town. There were no jobs. The college students sweep them all up because there's three universities. So, he pays his bills. He has a little brother to take care of. He puts food on the table. He is a 17 year old teenager. What else is he supposed to do? He hasn't failed society. Society has failed him.
Rex: So, when I wrote When We Ride, you know, I had sworn off memoirs. I went to my publisher and I was like, “My senior year is a really good story.” He was like, “I thought you said, ‘No more memoirs.’” So, we had a conversation about it. He liked the concept but the ending was all wrong. He's like, “Maybe you should go fiction,” and I was like, “I think you're right.” So, When We Ride is only 70% true. [Laughter] My senior year in high school I was living with my abuela. My best friend was a drug dealer. I used to drive him around to his drug deals because he did not have a car. I would sit in the car, doing my homework and filling out college applications, while he would go into college campuses and sell weed to college students. A lot of people were like, “Don't you know your best friend's a drug dealer?” I'm like, “Yeah.” They thought that made me a bad person by association. I was like, “Why is he a bad person?” They didn't know his life circumstances—why he was doing it. His mom has no job and we lived in Abilene, TX which is a small town, and a college town. There were no jobs. The college students sweep them all up because there's three universities. So, he pays his bills. He has a little brother to take care of. He puts food on the table. He is a 17 year old teenager. What else is he supposed to do? He hasn't failed society. Society has failed him.
Julie: Wow. Yes.
Rex: The point of the book that I want readers to take away, well, two things. One, when you look at someone who you judge, I want you to think about why you are judging them, and maybe what’s their real truth. Two, and maybe more importantly, I also want the kid who's like me to know that you have to have boundaries. I loved him. He was like a brother to me, but I had to draw boundaries. I was like, “I cannot jeopardize my future for your decisions.” His real name was Marshall. He would never have read prose.
Rex: The point of the book that I want readers to take away, well, two things. One, when you look at someone who you judge, I want you to think about why you are judging them, and maybe what’s their real truth. Two, and maybe more importantly, I also want the kid who's like me to know that you have to have boundaries. I loved him. He was like a brother to me, but I had to draw boundaries. I was like, “I cannot jeopardize my future for your decisions.” His real name was Marshall. He would never have read prose.
And then, Tupac
Julie: Tell me more about Marshall.
Rex: He loved Tupac. When he used to hop into my car, he would pop a Tupac cassette tape into my radio. At first, I’d be like, “No, I don't like this music.” He was always like, “You're racist.” Oh, and by the way, he's white. That's the funniest part. Everyone assumes he's Black because he's a drug dealer. I say several times in the book he is white.
Julie: I picked up on it—blue eyes.
Rex: Yeah. There have been people who've been like, “Why did you decide to write about a black drug dealer?” and I was like, “Did you read the book?’
Julie: Some of their own racism kind of peeked through a little bit.
Rex: Yeah, anyways, he loved Tupac. He made me read Tupac's song lyrics. You know when you fold out the cassette tape? I loved the words. The words were like poetry. When I decided to write When We Ride, I felt like writing a novel-in-verse. It's a good way of meeting kids where they're at.
Julie: So, Tupac, he did write poetry. There's a whole anthology.
Rex: He loved Tupac. When he used to hop into my car, he would pop a Tupac cassette tape into my radio. At first, I’d be like, “No, I don't like this music.” He was always like, “You're racist.” Oh, and by the way, he's white. That's the funniest part. Everyone assumes he's Black because he's a drug dealer. I say several times in the book he is white.
Julie: I picked up on it—blue eyes.
Rex: Yeah. There have been people who've been like, “Why did you decide to write about a black drug dealer?” and I was like, “Did you read the book?’
Julie: Some of their own racism kind of peeked through a little bit.
Rex: Yeah, anyways, he loved Tupac. He made me read Tupac's song lyrics. You know when you fold out the cassette tape? I loved the words. The words were like poetry. When I decided to write When We Ride, I felt like writing a novel-in-verse. It's a good way of meeting kids where they're at.
Julie: So, Tupac, he did write poetry. There's a whole anthology.
Rex: It’s under my desk right now. [Holds the book The Rose That Grew From Concrete up to the camera].
Julie: Look at that! Tupac! Yes, um, I feel like making the story accessible to students who don't identify as a reader yet is exactly what your novel-in-verse does. Did Marshall read it?
Rex: Oh, Marshall passed away right after right after high school.
Julie: Oh, I’m sorry.
Rex: He passed away from leukemia. This is one of the reasons why my publisher said my first ending was not a good ending. The cool thing is that I introduced him to my other best friend—the goody-goody girl that is in the book. She was vice-president of the student council. She was a straight-laced, good girl. They fell in love. They got married. Their daughter is my goddaughter. I did ask Casey and Madison's permission before I wrote When We Ride. I was like, “Is it okay if I put this out in the world? It's your story, too.”
Julie: Look at that! Tupac! Yes, um, I feel like making the story accessible to students who don't identify as a reader yet is exactly what your novel-in-verse does. Did Marshall read it?
Rex: Oh, Marshall passed away right after right after high school.
Julie: Oh, I’m sorry.
Rex: He passed away from leukemia. This is one of the reasons why my publisher said my first ending was not a good ending. The cool thing is that I introduced him to my other best friend—the goody-goody girl that is in the book. She was vice-president of the student council. She was a straight-laced, good girl. They fell in love. They got married. Their daughter is my goddaughter. I did ask Casey and Madison's permission before I wrote When We Ride. I was like, “Is it okay if I put this out in the world? It's your story, too.”
What's Next?
Julie: I’m glad they agreed. Thank you for writing it. I read it in a day, because . . . well, it's so good. So, what’s next? More YA?
Rex: So, I have 21 books under contract. Only about half of them are written [laughs] The next book that I have coming out, that I'm both really proud of, and I have nightmares constantly about the NRA coming for me. It's called American Gun. It is the story told from the perspective of a Glock 19 as it makes its way across America from 1988 to 2028, and all the lives that it affects along the way. So, it changes hands 16 times over the course of 40 years. I grew up in Texas, you know. I was taught gun safety at an early age. This book has been on the back of my mind for a while. Especially with all the school shootings. I'm very excited about this book. It's taken more research than most of my books. The history of guns, I've been reading old articles from the 70s, the 80s, the 90s talking about gun violence in America. What else am I doing in the YA space? The Count of Monte Cristo High. What else do I have that's coming up? Oh my gosh. so much middle grade.
Julie: I know. That’s wonderful, too. We have students in the middle that need your stories.
Rex: Oh. There's one that I started working on a few months ago. I won't tell you the title, but it is about the cross intersection of homophobia, toxic masculinity, sexual assault, and suicide. Those are four very very heavy topics, but I've had this story in the back of my mind for a while. I want to talk about what it means to be a man in America, and by man, I mean a teenage boy. People are putting up these videos that are influencing thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of boys in America with these really negative messages about what it looks like to be a man. I just want to write books that give kids an alternative to that. I mean, obviously, I can't compete with social media, but I will try to put books in their hands that talk about the things that maybe other people aren't talking to them about.
Rex: So, I have 21 books under contract. Only about half of them are written [laughs] The next book that I have coming out, that I'm both really proud of, and I have nightmares constantly about the NRA coming for me. It's called American Gun. It is the story told from the perspective of a Glock 19 as it makes its way across America from 1988 to 2028, and all the lives that it affects along the way. So, it changes hands 16 times over the course of 40 years. I grew up in Texas, you know. I was taught gun safety at an early age. This book has been on the back of my mind for a while. Especially with all the school shootings. I'm very excited about this book. It's taken more research than most of my books. The history of guns, I've been reading old articles from the 70s, the 80s, the 90s talking about gun violence in America. What else am I doing in the YA space? The Count of Monte Cristo High. What else do I have that's coming up? Oh my gosh. so much middle grade.
Julie: I know. That’s wonderful, too. We have students in the middle that need your stories.
Rex: Oh. There's one that I started working on a few months ago. I won't tell you the title, but it is about the cross intersection of homophobia, toxic masculinity, sexual assault, and suicide. Those are four very very heavy topics, but I've had this story in the back of my mind for a while. I want to talk about what it means to be a man in America, and by man, I mean a teenage boy. People are putting up these videos that are influencing thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of boys in America with these really negative messages about what it looks like to be a man. I just want to write books that give kids an alternative to that. I mean, obviously, I can't compete with social media, but I will try to put books in their hands that talk about the things that maybe other people aren't talking to them about.
Julie: Love it! So, I'm going to ask one last question that'll be like the end of the article and then I'm going to stop recording and we're just going to talk for a little off the record. You talked about being like a Trojan horse and getting a message to kids. You dip into how life is hard, and you're real. So, there are a lot of different messages overall that you have for our teenage readers. If you could just Trojan horse one last message for our teenagers, what’s the message?
Rex: I want every teenager in the world to know to take care of each other. Take care of each other and take care of yourself.
Rex: I want every teenager in the world to know to take care of each other. Take care of each other and take care of yourself.
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